AFL-CIO President discusses the energy outlook under the Biden Administration

Richard Trumka, AFL-CIO President joins the Yahoo Finance Live panel to discuss the "Green Economy" under President Biden.

Video transcript

AKIKO FUJITA: Welcome back to Yahoo Finance's Earth Day special, Planet Earth in Crisis. President Biden has vowed to create millions of jobs through the green economy. But he faces a lot of skeptics who question the quality of those jobs that are likely to be created. Local unions in some parts of the country arguing those jobs in renewables just don't pay the same rate that oil and gas jobs do. Let's bring in Richard Trumka, AFL-CIO president. Richard, when we talk about the oil and gas industry, we're talking about 10 million jobs that are currently available. But there's certainly a lot of jitters out there, it seems, about how many of those will be eliminated in this transition. What are you hearing from your members?

RICHARD TRUMKA: Well, they're concerned. The transition shouldn't be all on our backs. Look, we've provided energy-- and you didn't mention coal. You mentioned oil and gas, but I'd mention all three of them. We've provided energy that this company has grown on, and it's built our economy. And now that we're transitioning to a smaller carbon footprint, those communities shouldn't be left behind. And there shouldn't have to be a promise to them. There ought to be investment. We ought to make sure that we're investing in the areas where jobs are lost. And the second thing is, you've got to give us a pathway to make the jobs that are being created good middle class supporting jobs because currently, they're not. And that means changing the labor laws and passing the Pro Act.

ZACK GUZMAN: Yeah, and Mr. Trumka, I mean, when we talk about the Pro Act and other pushes here, it was interesting to kind of hear Joe Manchin in West Virginia, as you talk about coal and the miners there in that union coming to say, look, we'll back a shift away from coal for more renewable jobs here as long as you help us out. When it comes to what that help looks like, is it all just about upskilling, or is it more to do about maybe protecting lost wages? And post-pandemic, we've seen the government's pretty good at making sure they can assure wages here. So what does that plan look like to you to be fair to workers who are impacted by this change?

RICHARD TRUMKA: Well, I think it's got to be a little bit of all the above. I mean, there's no cookie cutter that you can apply. In some areas, you can do mine reclamation and well reclamation. And we have the skills to do those jobs. They can be high-paying jobs. In other areas where you're going to lose those jobs, you're going to make some kind of investment to bring new jobs in and then give us a pathway to be able to make those jobs good jobs.

Because the fight right now isn't between green and blue. The fight right now is green and blue against greed. You got a number of employers in the renewable energy system that are hell bent on keeping those jobs non-union and low-paying. And we need to have a pathway to get through. And the current labor laws don't do that. They're 100 years old. They're antiquated. And anybody, any employer can use them to prevent workers from having a voice on the job, rather than as it was originally intended for them to have a pathway to have a voice on the job.

AKIKO FUJITA: And on that front, we have heard from White House national climate advisor Gina McCarthy talking about ensuring that these jobs aren't just good-paying jobs, but they are union jobs. I want you to take a listen to what she had to say. And I'll get your reaction on the other end.

GINA MCCARTHY: President Biden is basically a jobs and union guy. And he's also a person who cares about fairness and equity. So he's not just looking at the communities that have been left behind that need benefits. He's also recognizing with his eyes wide open that there has already been a transition. We're looking at areas of our country that have been disinvested in because, for example, in coal country, where coal has become less competitive and those jobs have shrunk.

AKIKO FUJITA: And Richard, I know you were supportive of the president when he was still a candidate because you said he was a unions' guy. What's the conversation you've been having with the White House right now about the types of assurances you'd like and how this transition will look like for those who are, in fact, losing their jobs, and the quality of jobs that need to be created on the other side?

RICHARD TRUMKA: Well, first of all, getting to the transition should be an all of the above strategy. And the president, we've talked to him about that. And the president's plan is an all of the above strategy, which is very, very important. Look, his goals are very aggressive. But they're meant to meet this moment. And the president, I think, spoke from his heart about the workers affected and the opportunities that we have to create good union jobs. And he's supportive of the Pro Act. He's supportive of changing the labor laws.

And he understands that if you create-- if you destroy 100 jobs in southwestern Pennsylvania, and you create 100 jobs in California, that doesn't do you much good. He's committed to putting jobs back where they were lost, making sure that the people don't get left behind. And that will require a little bit of everything. It'll require help from the federal government, state government. It'll require some upskilling. And it will require investment so that good jobs can be created. And it'll require the Pro Act to be passed so that we can make those jobs good-paying jobs.

ZACK GUZMAN: Yeah, let's dig into the Pro Act here, too, because it's an interesting one as it passed the House. And obviously, Republicans are going to, I'm sure, play their part to maybe block some things in the Senate. But when you look at it, critics might point out the fact that there are two things there that worry some when it comes to maybe turning over employee information to union organizers and the fact that they can go after people who didn't join the union and charge them, essentially, for deals that they negotiate on their side. So I mean, when you look at that as maybe worthy criticisms or changes that might need to happen to get Republican support in the Senate, I mean, where do you see that bill moving forward if Joe Biden is going to be the one out there to bring sides together?

RICHARD TRUMKA: Well, first of all, the privacy thing is sort of a red herring. We already get the information under the current rules. All it does is institutionalize those rules because we get it now under an NLRB ruling, which obviously can be changed. And where we're required to protect them, we don't give that information away. We don't sell it to anybody. We use it only so we can contact them and have a communication with them.

Because here's what happens today. The employer takes people, and he puts them in a room, and he shuts the door. And I'll tell you what happened in Amazon. And he bombards them with this anti-union stuff, most of which is exaggeration and many lies. And if anybody at Amazon tried to get up and refute that, they'd take a picture of that employee, and then they'd dismiss him from the meeting. Says to everybody else, keep your mouth shut. Don't say a word, or I'll dismiss you from the meeting.

All it does is give us the same fair chance to talk to those employees, as the employer has every single day. It doesn't give us any special rights. It doesn't give us any other thing, except the ability to talk to them. They can say yes, or they can say no. If they say no, then it's over with. If they say yes, then they ought to have a right to have a union on the job and have a voice on the job so that they can get better wages and better benefits and better healthcare so that they can make that place safer and healthier to work in. And so that they can ultimately forge a partnership with their employer as equals so that everybody benefits from the enterprise, and not just the people at the top.

AKIKO FUJITA: Richard Trumka, we're going to have to have you back on again soon for that part of the conversation. But AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka, always good to talk to you. Thanks so much for joining us today.